Curse

MithranArkanere · Nov 07, 2011, 02:38 PM // 14:38

I mostly PvE, but it was the free PvP weekends what got me into GW in the first place.

Maybe they should bring that back.

Each weekend when there's no festival or special event with drops (like pirate day, thanksgiving, easter, etc), one of the PvP formats could be open to the public.

That could bring the interest towards that format, with more people there's always more fights, and with more fights come more chances to win.

Pinkest One · Nov 07, 2011, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 07, 2011, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkest One

Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.

There is something wrong with the way you apply your brain to the format.

MithranArkanere · Nov 07, 2011, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Unfortunately, that's the most effective way.
Never forget that people gravitate towards effectiveness.
If they see that they win more often by doing something repetitive and boring, they will do that.

Cap, cap, cap, and kill only those that are dumb enough to be caught alone. That works, so people do that.

Each map needs more diverse objectives, alternate things to do to gain advantage. Picking some explosive and blowing some door isn't enough, when doing that takes enough time for the enemy to cap 2 or 3 shrines and keep advantage over you.

Even things like making it so only one two shrines can be contested at any give time (Like TF2's control points) would focus the game more into actual battles than into silly avoid-combat tactics.

Markaedw · Nov 07, 2011, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkest One

Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.

There is a little more strategy than that. Sometimes it is avoid fighting and cap fast. Sometimes you have to mob but still have a few solos cappers. As a solo capper you have to decide when to cap and maybe die and when to abandon the attempt run to the next one.

I am working on maxing my allegiance titles and I play AB very little, even on the ZC days I usually just play my regular FA and JQ. Sometimes it takes me 3 ZC days just to get 2 victories. The last time AB came up for ZC I didn't even bother playing.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 07, 2011, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Unfortunately, that's the most effective way.
Never forget that people gravitate towards effectiveness.
If they see that they win more often by doing something repetitive and boring, they will do that.

Cap, cap, cap, and kill only those that are dumb enough to be caught alone. That works, so people do that.

Each map needs more diverse objectives, alternate things to do to gain advantage. Picking some explosive and blowing some door isn't enough, when doing that takes enough time for the enemy to cap 2 or 3 shrines and keep advantage over you.

Even things like making it so only one two shrines can be contested at any give time (Like TF2's control points) would focus the game more into actual battles than into silly avoid-combat tactics.

Sweet mother of...

I thought it was just this one guy being clueless, but seems like this notion of AB being a brainless mobbing capfest is shared by more. Capping and avoiding combat is vastly more effective than running around randomly dying to better or more numerous opponents. That doesn't mean avoiding combat is the best or only winning strategy. In fact, it's far from optimal.

Ever heard of this thing "dead players don't cap"? It's actually true. Controlling where they respawn is another aspect, sending them back to base costs them time, valuable time. With regards to this scenario that the other guy pointed out with a team recapping just behind your team.. why not wait at the shrine and take them on 4v4 but with the added support of holding the shrine. They can't push in without dying, you can always fall back if you take pressure. You may even be able to afford to send off 1-2 people from your team effectively stalling an entire team with just 2-3 players. A good trade. People don't understand that the shrines vary in importance either. On grenz/etnaran the res point is extremely crucial while ele/war/ranger is of greater strategic importance than mes/nec/orb. I've been using this and a lot more to gain an upper hand in all of my matches for years now. My win:lose ratio is way above average and I win even vs synced teams carrying nooblets. And I spend my time fighting compared to capping in about 5:1 ratio.

AB is just a lot more strategic than people realise. Only a handful exploit this to the fullest. But this thread was about how AB is dead and after entering the outpost a few times lately I can verify this. Very sad indeed.

Missing HB · Nov 07, 2011, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that AB requires a little tactic, but let's be honest , it's usually about abusing the fact that most players are terrible:
- try to just run around the map and you will certainly have at least 2 opponents following you( note: this works 99% of time if you have less than 100 hp)
- usually people aren't climbing on shrine... just stand on the very end of its range and most of time people will wand/spam skills away from the shrine
- people don't know how to suicide properly( i.e in order to facilitate your team or gain seconds to cap shrines).. linked with first point..

There is nothing with bodyblocking, timekilling, snaring, strong team play , etc.. which means no tactic really... And i got to say that the guy is quite right saying that most of fights are 2 teams running in circle to see who's capping the fastest...but that's exclusive to kurzic/luxon castle maps, this doesn't really happen in other maps( but we never get those... so that's why..)

JONO51 · Nov 07, 2011, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkest One

Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.

Kill the team chasing you, problem solved...

Hi I'm Jecht · Nov 07, 2011, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I get the feeling that most people who have posted here are the people who say 'Clockwise only' at the beginning of each game.

That makes me believe that AB Is dead because the competitive players stopped playing, and that the competitive players stopped playing because these 'Clockwise only' players are an easy farm, for easy wins, for every game.

Didn't we already have an AB thread the other day?

*lemming* · Nov 07, 2011, 07:52 PM // 19:52

It was in Glad's Arena.

MithranArkanere · Nov 07, 2011, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Sweet mother of...
[...]

AB is not HA or GvG. You don't pick your allies.

Most of the time a leader has no control over 8/12 players. And PUGs happen so often that they may have no control over 11/12 players.

Yes, there are many viable tactics, but the lack of organization between parties of the same side makes keeping a single mindless tactic the most effective one.

The main problem is people wanting, control over towns(to get cheaper lockpicks) and titles(to show off, for the HoM or for skills) more than the fun of the combat itself.
So they won't risk defeat with 'new' tactics, when the old ones work.

They don't think much about it, they just keep doing what seems to work.

It doesn't matter if AB is more strategic than people realize, if they'll never realize it.

Pinkest One · Nov 07, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Sweet mother of...

I thought it was just this one guy being clueless, but seems like this notion of AB being a brainless mobbing capfest is shared by more. Capping and avoiding combat is vastly more effective than running around randomly dying to better or more numerous opponents. That doesn't mean avoiding combat is the best or only winning strategy. In fact, it's far from optimal.

I didnt say capping is the way i play AB(when i used to).
The "Notion" of it being a mobbin capfest isnt just shared my more...its shared by the majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

wait at the shrine and take them on 4v4 but with the added support of holding the shrine.

4vs4? 4vs12 common and no shrine will change the outcome against those odds. So you either run from the mob,which doesnt contribute much to the score,or you stand and fight,stalling the mob very little.

The Drunkard · Nov 07, 2011, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Game's been out for a while, as well as the title for AB.

Most people don't tend to continue playing after finishing Savior.

I'm sure you can connect the rest of the dots.

Judge Nl · Nov 07, 2011, 10:35 PM // 22:35

AB has been arround for a long while. Since then various tactics were developed. Some based on capping, some on taking teams out and some on preventing enemy caps.

Quote:

Most of the time a leader has no control over 8/12 players.

It has random teams indeed. But the trick is to know / predict what those teams can do, know what they cannot do and adjust tactics to that.

DiogoSilva · Nov 08, 2011, 02:12 AM // 02:12

AB used to be my favourite pvp format sometime ago, especially when it wasn't stuck on the castle. But, like to most other people here, I ended up getting used to the run and cap tactic, and then got bored of it.

I remember when I thought of the idea of going water ele. The ability to support shrine capping, even if not solo (Maelstrom for spellcasters, Blurred Vision for warriors, while rest of team dealt most of the damage job) while still having some fun snaring people out seemed very fun to me, in a format that's mostly about movement. But wow, was I ineffective at both. Snaring teams was useless because they would be delayed in combat regardless. Snaring single foes was mostly useless because they are idiots and die easily against full teams, or simply waste their time.

I mean, why even bother if I can just solo cap, fall back, solo cap, and so on, and have faith that the level of stupidity from the opposing faction is higer than mine's?

headlesshobbs · Nov 08, 2011, 03:48 AM // 03:48

I'm going back on my point on controlling awards, importance to territorial control in PVE, etc. Anet needs to make a point with this as opposed to running their current build setting the way it is now.

I don't mind seeing folks cut off from their gains, but if they don't have land, they shouldn't be getting anything until they get off their butts and get it back. JQ/FA needs to fall under this as well.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 08, 2011, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkest One

4vs4? 4vs12 common and no shrine will change the outcome against those odds. So you either run from the mob,which doesnt contribute much to the score,or you stand and fight,stalling the mob very little.

Step away from shrine. Let them cap. Recap as soon as they move on. They max out at 4 pips of cap speed, same as you spend to recap. Then just follow them around till you win. Ta-daa...

Yes yes.. to all of you saying people are idiots, of course they are. But every once in a while you run into some good players and what do you do then? Fold your cards and blame "bad allies"? I bet most of you have done that, even those here that consider themselves good. Look at your allies before match starts, randomways? Heals available? Capways? Adjust accordingly. See 4 baddies fighting cnex at res shrine? Go help them! Cnex losing morale, your bad allies get a rush and will pay you back by running off to cap shrines. Protect npcs. Protect allies. I don't know about you but for me the biggest thrills came from winning with baddies against the odds. It is INSANE how much impact just 1 player can have on the outcome of a game. (Not saying it's sometimes totally hopeless - "sacways")

Sirds · Nov 08, 2011, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Step away from shrine. Let them cap. Recap as soon as they move on. They max out at 4 pips of cap speed, same as you spend to recap. Then just follow them around till you win. Ta-daa...

Yes yes.. to all of you saying people are idiots, of course they are. But every once in a while you run into some good players and what do you do then? Fold your cards and blame "bad allies"? I bet most of you have done that, even those here that consider themselves good. Look at your allies before match starts, randomways? Heals available? Capways? Adjust accordingly. See 4 baddies fighting cnex at res shrine? Go help them! Cnex losing morale, your bad allies get a rush and will pay you back by running off to cap shrines. Protect npcs. Protect allies. I don't know about you but for me the biggest thrills came from winning with baddies against the odds. It is INSANE how much impact just 1 player can have on the outcome of a game. (Not saying it's sometimes totally hopeless - "sacways")

Finally nice to hear people who are familiar with the case. With a good, organized team everyone can win. Try to win the fight with random people battlefield tactics where needed!

chullster · Nov 08, 2011, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

...snip...

Ahh, your post takes me back to the good old days of AB when you mentioned cnex.. tanking with a pre-nerf aura of lich mm, seeing ALCAPWIN on his ranger, playing earth ele with shockwave, sliver armour and 4 shadowsteps....so much diversity, pvp that didn't need a monk or anything in particular being meta for that matter.

I seriously would have not bothered with GW had I not discovered AB when playing on my girlfriends account. If the first thing I had seen of PvP was Sync Arenas, Ranked Ascent or Shadowstep Battles I would have not have given anet my money several times over and just carried on living in Battlefield 2: Special Forces.

Don Zardeone · Nov 08, 2011, 11:18 AM // 11:18

if monks are needed just allow 1 hero per team

win?